Color guard. If you’ve ever seen high school bands or college bands marching around on a field and you saw those people waving flags and spinning rifle stocks into the air during these wonderful choreographies, you’ve seen color guard. That’s what it is.
My wife and I found ourselves at one of these competitions. These color guard performances will have themes attached to them. They might be circuses or romances or space or different social themes (some healthy, some not so healthy.)
At these competitions this year here in Michigan, we saw a truly jaw-dropping performance that stood apart from all the rest.
The teams have a moment where they’re getting everything set up for their performance, and in this particular case, we saw people scurrying around in, what I would call, Puritan outfits. We had a little campfire over in the corner, and some benches over in the other corner. It looked to me like we were going after Thanksgiving.
But that’s not what they were thinking!
Everyone takes their places, and then the announcer announces the name of the school, please help me welcome such-and-such a school, and then he gives the title. In this case, the title was “Burn the Witch”.
The music starts up and begins with these lyrics:
The flame lick at my feet,
their heart’s full of hate.
What they don’t understand, they condemn.
What they can’t comprehend must meet its end.
Up in the upper left-hand corner, we have Christians in what I would call a weekend gathering, sometimes praying with their clasped hands or they are with open hands, they’re reading imaginary Bibles.
Quickly though, one of the girls sneaks off and four more follow her to the campfire on wheels where the five of them begin to dance around the fire, obviously emulating coven activity.
Well, the Christians catch wind of this and spiritual warfare begins. Eventually, the witch hunt commences with everyone now flipping fiery flags.
The head witch is caught, dragged to the stake, and the cloth behind her is dropped, revealing this big fire. She starts thrashing and writhing, eventually collapsing to the ground. The rest of the dancers convene where?
Back at church.
Ah, those hateful, judgmental Christians, always trying to keep those nature-lovers down.
While the imagery from this performance was overt—it was clear, this is a slap at Christianity—I couldn’t assume that the music was equally a slap at Christianity, so I needed to get better grounded on the lyrics and the artist.
The musician is super talented, and the song itself is very harrowing. But let’s take a look at these lyrics. I already spoke to
their hearts being full of hate and what they don’t understand, they condemn.
Then there’s the stand in defiance, rebellion:
but I won’t scream, won’t give them that satisfaction.
I won’t confess my false interaction, and I hear them chant, burn the witch.
Here again, we have the return to innocence, oh no, the witch being burned at the stake is innocent:
I stand accused of being in league with Satan.
No proof for that false accusation. (I mean, other than these dancers dancing around a fire in a pentagon.)
You know, the song goes on, burn the witch, burn the witch, burn the witch.
Still, at this point, I’m trying to give the musician the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he’s just angry at the Church. Maybe he has some sort of deeper meaning than what I’m thinking. So my question becomes, well, does he explain the meaning of this song?
The musician’s name is Shawn James Mavrides and he goes by the stage name Shawn James. About the song, his Twitter account says,
“Burn the Witch’ is a song about discrimination and those who choose to stand up against it in spite of being persecuted. The idea that being from a witch’s perspective, burned at the stake made perfect sense to me.
“What are you thoughts behind the meaning of this new single?”
One of Shawn James’ audience members says on Facebook:
“Besides the song being a very important and real lesson on some of the mistakes we as a society have made in the past, I find I can relate to it on a personal level. It resonates with me because of my involvement/association with a rather unorthodox religious group, the Satanic Temple. Since coming across their work and the ideology that drives that work, I have been an open supporter. In a sense, TST is the witch. Their perspective on things, although very sensible, is more often than not not understood and is chastised by the majority. ‘What they don’t comprehend, they condemn.’ TST is literally seen as ‘being in league with Satan.’ (It could be because it’s in the name.) “But if people would take the time to educate themselves, they might find their points of view very agreeable. Overall, it is a very powerful song and I absolutely loved it.”
Shawn James writes, “I love your perspective and good points you made there. Thank you for sharing.”
The more meaningful comment for me came right after that:
“The first word that comes to mind… esoteric.”
It was the esoteric comment that received the praise emoji that got my attention. You see, I’ve splashed around in the New Age gutter long enough to recognize the word “esoteric” is a reference to something else.
So a quick glance at Wikipedia shows us that yeah, esotericism, or esotericist schools, are connected with the occult and Wicca, which is witchcraft. It also includes smatterings of Gnosticism, like what we see represented in movies like “The Matrix”, “Lego Movie” and “Truman Show”, and it’s involved with Freemasonry, which it just so happens is this school has a Facebook club page that was advertising a spaghetti dinner sponsored by their local Masonic temple. (So maybe not a big surprise there.)
As you look on further, you can go deeper into Wicca, and sure enough, there’s our five-pointed star, there’s our pentagram!
Now, obviously while I’m on this journey, I’m Googling and I’m discovering other things and I eventually see the song cover for this song. On the song cover are these hands that are bound (which makes sense; we’re talking about burning the witch, which includes binding the witch.) But there’s these tattoos, these runes tattooed onto whoever’s thumbs.
So I have the question then, are these the artist’s hands? How deep is this? Or is this just a set of hands that’s a stock graphic?
Well, no. You go to Facebook and Pinterest, and sure enough, yeah, these are indeed Shawn James’ hands.
In fact, he’s got several tattoos, including tarot cards and this esoteric dial called a vegvisir which is Icelandic for “signpost or way finder.” Now, a vegvisir is an Icelandic magical stave (which I had to look up.) What is a stave? It’s a symbol, and in this case, this magical symbol is intended to help the bearer find their way through the rougher weather of life.
Going back to the symbols on his hands, well, the next question is what do these symbols mean, because maybe they’re just stylized letters and it’s really his mom’s initials or something cute like that.
No, it wasn’t that. Thank you, Reddit:
“Those appear to be alchemical symbols for lead on the right and phosphorus on the left.”
Another contributor writes in, “Interesting thing I never noticed before seeing them presented in this way with Ma’at’s scale is that they’re both representing paths or partial paths up to the Tree of Life from the Kabbalah.”
So there’s this tension between light and dark, or as Star Wars would put it, the balance between these two forces.
And it was this comment that threw me back to go look at the album cover. I had noticed it in my searches, but I hadn’t really take any time to look at it.
Well, now I’m looking at it because somebody recognized it as Ma’at’s scale. I didn’t know who Ma’at was, and didn’t know why they had a scale.
This Egyptian illustration reads from left to right, beginning with Anubis and ending with Osiris. To the left, Anubis brings the deceased into the judgment area, and then, in comic book fashion, Anubis is also shown at the scales supervising the scales of judgment. The deceased’s heart (conscience, emotions, intellect and character) was weighed against the feather of Ma’at, an ostrich feather in this case, on scales which represented balance and justice. If their heart was found to be heavier than the feather, it was determined that the deceased had failed to live in a balanced life by the principles of Ma’at.
As a result, the deceased would have been condemned to non-existence (which I guess you would call destruction of sinners) and their heart was either thrown into a lake of fire, or devoured by the demon deity, Ammit, depicted as part crocodile, part lion, part hippopotamus. However, if the heart was balanced with the feather of Maat, the deceased would pass into eternal life.
So that largely explains the scales. We have these alchemical symbols at the bottom of it. We recognize this now as an Egyptian mystery school scale.
But then, at the bottom, you can see just for added touch, we see cloven hooves, an obvious reference to Satan and Luciferianism.
You do a quick Wikipedia on Luciferianism, and it kind of falls in line with Gnosticism, it falls in line with all of these mystery schools, the pagan, Wiccan, and all that kind of jazz.
Lucifer, called the light-bearer, also known as Saturn, is seen as the great judge with scales and a sword, and he’s been entrusted with the gateway to transcendence.
Now, because he went off-page, off-script with this overbearing God, because he and his angel friends taught divine mysteries to mankind, he’s been punished.
So we went back to this idea of reaching and attaining for esoteric, ancient wisdom, even in the face of being held down by a restrictive, punishing, dictatorial God. Lucifer wasn’t a bad guy. He and the other Watchers of Enoch and Jubilees were just trying to help humans by sharing secret knowledge including the knowledge of good and evil.
But now, cast out of their heavenly abode, they are fallen angels who have been falsely accused and who only really seek to elevate humanity.
Bleah.
I hope you guys are seeing this. I hope you’re seeing the heart behind the lyrics, the heart behind the performance.
I hope you’re seeing that, as they’re reaching for this clandestine wisdom, as they’re reaching for higher knowledge, self-actualization is all they’re after. After all, they’re made to be gods too.
So we have this false accusation theory that’s going on in Luciferianism, that’s going on in Gnosticism, that’s going on in Wicca. And so we see it here in the song.
Oh, and just so you know, the crowd cheered just as loudly for this troupe as they did for every other troupe, which is crazy when you think about it because you’ve got to figure at least probably a third to a half of those people in the audience would probably check the Christian box to say, “Yeah, we’re Christian.” At least a third of them probably go to church I’m guessing.
One final note here: During the final awards ceremony, each team was introduced and they would come up donning these crazy hats and headgear. As they would do so, a couple of members of their team at the front of the line would step forward and do some sort of flourish or salute.
Well, this group, the Wiccan group, this is their flourish.
We have the feminine truth-seeking daughter of Mother Earth being held down by the rigidity of patriarchal Abrahamic religion. The injustice of it all. She just wants enlightenment, folks.
Gross.
Open your eyes, Christians. We have this stuff going on under our noses.
Look at what your kids are reading. Sniff out the agendas that your coaches have and that your teachers have. Ask your kids how things are going at school. Bring them to material like this and say have you ever seen anything like this? Most of the kids should probably say no, but there’s been times where I’ve had to go in and speak with teachers because I’d have a kid come to me and point out that there was a book on witchcraft in the classroom. And because it had the seal of approval by Newbery—it was a Newbery award winner—it must be okay.
Trash.
I love you guys.
Hope this was informative. Hope this blew your hair back a little bit. This is a sobering video to make. It’s not the video I intended to make right now, but this is the video that came up, so this is what we’re running with.
Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God, got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself. Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded. So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?” Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.” Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” Simon Peter said to Him, “Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head.” Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason, He said, “Not all of you are clean.” So when He had washed their feet, and taken His garments and reclined at the table again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? “You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am. ‘If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet. “For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you.” (John 13:3-15)
The Greek word translated sin is “hamartia” and is defined as a “falling away from or missing the right path”. In the context of the Scriptures, the right path is measured by God’s standards as revealed in the Word of God. When man operates outside the will of God, willfully or not, he is living in a state of sin. In Romans 14:23b, the Bible says, “whatever is not from faith is sin”. This means that when the believer is not believing (trusting) God, he is sinning. This speaks about our ongoing fellowship with God and the only solution to this problem for the believer is confession.
Breaking the bondage
To understand the role of confession in a believer’s life, we need to be convinced that our position “in Christ” is perfect and cannot be improved, that Jesus did pay for all my sins. My experience as a human being living in a corrupt and fallen world is not so perfect because I am subject to all of my human weaknesses. Galatians 5:17 says, “For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please”. But if Jesus paid the price for all my sins, why do I need to confess them? Because these sins have an energy, a power unto themselves and can keep me in bondage to the failures and not allow me to experience the victorious life. Confession breaks this bondage by expressing to God a desire to change, agreeing with God’s assessment of the failures. According to Frederick Buechner, “To confess your sins to God is not to tell God anything God doesn’t already know. Until you confess them, however, they are the abyss between you. When you confess them, they become the Golden Gate Bridge.”
In Mark 10:45, Jesus says, “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.” It was the role of a servant to wash the feet of guests since most travelled without shoes, but Jesus is again challenging the disciples’ understanding of what might be expected of them and what Jesus was willing to do to honor His Father. In John 13, He becomes a servant to illustrate the importance of confession to each believer. He accomplishes this by washing each of the disciples’ feet. A very informative exchange unfolds when He gets to Peter, who questions this whole exercise.
Agreement with God
His first response to Jesus was, “Lord, do you wash my feet?” (verse 6). He is asking the Lord why He should wash the feet of a sinner like Peter. Jesus tells Peter to wait and you will understand later, but Peter responds to Jesus that this can never happen. Jesus tells Peter that if He does not do it, Peter will “have no part with Me”. Jesus was telling Peter that everyone needs the forgiveness and cleansing that only Jesus can give. Impetuous Peter then tells Jesus to wash not only his feet, but his hands and head also. Jesus’ response is very telling, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you”. Jesus is teaching Peter the principles of confession, found in 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. He is also referencing Judas Iscariot when He said, “but not all of you”. Salvation deals with the sin condition and confession deals with our walk.
The Greek word translated confession is “homologeo” and is the combination of 2 Greek words, “homo” meaning same and “logoe” meaning to say. It literally means to say the same thing and contains the idea of agreement, consent, or admission. Confession is the process of the believer agreeing with God’s assessment that what he did was wrong. By agreeing with God in this regard, we receive cleansing from God for the thing that we did wrong. The sin was paid for, but the effect of that sin needs to be addressed. When Jesus spoke of those who have been bathed only needing their feet washed, He was teaching that a believer’s faith makes him clean in his position, but his feet, speaking of his experience, his behavior, still needs to be cleansed from unrighteousness. In John 15:3, “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you”. Confession is the cleansing of the soul from the power that a sin can have over a believer’s life.
Put Him in charge
The illustration of confession in John 13 is a powerful one because Jesus has become our servant, to cleanse our feet every time we confess. It reminds me of another passage in Genesis 39 dealing with Joseph, son of Jacob, a type of Christ in this passage. It takes place after Joseph is sold into slavery to Potiphar, an Egyptian officer, and becomes Potiphar’s favored personal servant. In verse 2, Scripture says, “The Lord was with Joseph, so he became a successful man” and in verse 4, Potiphar saw that the Lord was with Joseph and put him in charge of everything he owned. Jesus wants us to allow Him to become our servant so that we will put Him in charge of everything. When we seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, He adds all things to us, so we do not have to be anxious about tomorrow (Matthew 6:33-34).
David is our example
King David wrote Psalm 51 and Psalm 32 in response to his failures with Bathsheba and her husband. He asks the Lord to wash him thoroughly from the effects of these sins (Psalm 51:7), knowing that the guilt associated with these sins would destroy him. In Psalm 32:5, “I acknowledged my sin to You, and my iniquity I did not hide; I said, ‘I will confess my transgressions to the Lord’; and You forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah”. It was the guilt of the sin that David was addressing with his confession. He had already addressed his sin in verses 1-2 when he acknowledged that the one whose sins are covered is blessed of God, referring to himself. This Hebrew word used for guilt is “awon” and it used to reference either the sin or the effect of that sin, namely guilt. The consequence of sin in the new covenant is guilt or conviction from the Holy Spirit within each believer. David recognizes that his relationship with God has been harmed by his sins (“Against You, You only, I have sinned and done what is evil in Your sight” – verse 4) and acknowledges God’s right to judge him.
Hyssop is mentioned in verse 7 as an instrument of purification. In the ceremonial law, hyssop was used as a means by which the virtue of the sacrifice was transferred to the transgressor. This principle is a clear reference to the believer’s forgiveness coming from the shed blood of another. In 1 Peter 2:24, “and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed”.
In Psalm 51:10, David asks God for a clean heart and a steadfast spirit. So much of our ability to continue in the path God has established for each believer is to maintain a clean or pure heart. In fact, Jesus said that the one who has a pure heart is blessed and will see God (Matthew 5:8). Augustine once said, “The confession of evil works is the first beginning of good works.” Confession leads to a life that produces the fruit of God’s goodness, namely good works.
Reconciliation
The quality of confession is determined by the condition of the heart. A sincere heart is a heart that is transparent, not holding anything back, willing to admit all. It means drawing near (Hebrews 10:22) to God regularly, just as we need our feet washed often, and being confident that our willing heart will result in an internal change, “our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience”. An evil conscience is one filled with guilt, either conscious or unconscious guilt. The blood of Christ can do so much more than the blood of goats and bulls to “cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God” (Hebrews 9:13-14).
Getting back to our passage from John 13, we find Jesus commending the disciples to do to others as I have done to you (verses 14-15). I believe Paul captured the essence of what Jesus was teaching in 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 when he speaks about the ministry of reconciliation. First, as believers we are new creatures (verse 17), having a new life and a new future. In Colossians 1:21-22, “And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach”. Reconciliation means I was once alienated and hostile in my mind toward God, but a transformation took place and my fellowship with God is now restored. My response to this supernatural work of God is to accept this ministry of reconciliation (verse 18) as defined in verse 19, that it is “reconciling the world to Himself” through the word of reconciliation. As a result, we become “ambassadors for Christ” and we “beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God”.
Max Lucado once said, “We will never be cleansed until we confess we are dirty. And we will never be able to wash the feet of those who have hurt us until we allow Jesus, the one we have hurt, to wash ours.” By accepting the reconciliation offered to each believer at salvation, we are called to draw near to God to receive cleansing and be empowered to the ministry of reconciliation that allows believers to operate as ambassadors, in Christ’s place, to become representatives of His heart and life for the world to witness.
Need help getting started with confessing your sins? This sin list should help.
(This is the final clip from the interview with Martyn Whittock, author of “End Times, Again?”. Here we discuss the shift between 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Thessalonians 5 and dialogue about our understanding of “Day of the Lord” language versus “Day of Christ”. Enjoy!)
[Matthew] One question before I let you go. So, you did mention 1 Thessalonians 4. I believe at this point—in my understanding of both 1 Thessalonians 4 and its marriage to 1 Thessalonians 5—I believe these passages are talking about two different events. There is the Day of the Lord—the national judgment that’s coming towards Israel at the time that this is being written. But then there is this “Day of Christ” that seems to be spoken to. I actually see those as two separate things. I believe that there is a Day of Christ, when the Lord comes back, that is His Second Coming. But here [in 1 Thessalonians 5], we get this Day of the Lord language mixed up with, “When we see the Son of Man coming on the clouds.”
[Martyn] My. That’s really interesting. I’ve never thought of that. I tended to think of it as being—but I’m open to be persuaded—I tended to see Day of the Lord as being a continuance of a Hebrewism in the Greek, you know, rooted in the Old Testament Day of the Lord, The Day. And I then read The Day of Christ as being, effectively, a Christianization of this, so that I would say the day of the Lord, but then I’d say, in the past, no one would’ve known what “Day of Christ” was, but now I know it’s Jesus.
So, I kind of interpreted that as being, effectively, synonyms for the same phenomenon.
[Matthew] The same event.
[Martyn] Yeah, one drawing upon, effectively, a Greek version of a Hebrewism. The Day of the Lord is obviously a very major thing in prophecy after prophecy. And that “The Day of Christ” or, you know, “The Day of Jesus,”—now, I know that that phrase doesn’t actually appear as such, but it’s effectively, “The Day of Jesus”—only fully makes sense, for me, when you understand that “The Day of the Lord” is inextricably connected with the revelation of Yahweh, God, in the person of His Son, Jesus. You see what I mean? So for me, that was something that could only make sense once people had a Christology, to be frank about it, and that’s when “The Day of the Lord” then became Christological when you could say, “Ah, that’s exactly the same as when Jesus will come back.” So I’d seen that as being synonyms, but I might be wrong. I mean, I haven’t studied enough.
[Matthew] Right, so, study out “Day of the Lord.” Actually, you know what? One of the, one of the ebooks that I just pulled down yesterday talked a little bit about this. But, yeah. ”Day of the Lord,” for me, is national judgment on Israel.
[Martyn] Right, that’s interesting.
[Matthew] And there’s plenty of cases in Old Testament for this, like Nahum, Obadiah, Isaiah.
[Martyn] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s like a drumbeat, isn’t it? It’s like bam, bam, bam, the Lord, the Lord, the Day, the Day.
[Matthew] Yeah, but then we forget about it by the time we get to the Olivet Discourse, and we think it’s the literal stars and moon, you know, falling from the sky and all that. But that Thessalonians place, where 4 meets 5, read it again, because I think 1 Thessalonians 5 says, “But in that day.” I’ve got a Bible right here, I could pull it up, but I believe it says something along the lines of, “But in that day.” And therein is, these are two different events.
[Martyn] Right, that’s interesting.
[Matthew] We’re talking about the national judgment that it’s coming, that the early church knew about. Because our Lord had said, “It’s gonna happen in this generation,” they had that time clock going. And everywhere else in scripture, “this generation” means “this generation.” It doesn’t mean the generation to come 2000 years later, after Israel reforms in 1948.
[Martyn] And that’s a debate in itself, isn’t it, for “this generation.” Wow.
[Matthew] But every other place in scripture, “this generation” means “this generation,” the generations being addressed in that moment.
[Martyn] Yes, and that’s when you, of course, get into the whole preterist-futurist combination and we tend to fall into camps, don’t we? We are one or we are the other. But that’s when you think, yeah, the fall of Jerusalem A.D. 70 to 71. That clearly is part of what this is about, isn’t it? But on the other hand, is that also a foreshadow of much greater things at the end? Yeah, really interesting.
[Matthew] And that’s where we get into people trying to bring in that dual-fulfillment piece.
[Martyn] That’s right. That’s true too.
[Matthew] That we cut from this conversation, but that’s where that dual-fulfillment stuff comes in.
[Martyn] Yeah, fascinating.
[Matthew] All right, okay. Just wondered where you were at on that. You gave me a perspective that I didn’t have.
[Martyn] Yeah, and you challenged me to think more about that as well, myself.
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
(Matthew 24:35)
It has been generally believed that Jesus here meant that even though these physical heavens and earth will pass away some day, that is not true about His word which will never pass away. Whether this physical earth and solar system ever passes away is not the point in this chapter. There is more to this statement of Jesus than meets the eye. Jesus has been talking in apocalyptic language, and heaven and earth passing away could mean here just what He has been talking about—that the heaven and earth of the old Jewish order will pass away, and that His word concerning all this is sure to come to pass.
At first glance, it looks as though Jesus was simply saying in this verse, “My words will be here when the world has passed away” But is the physical world or universe what Jesus had in mind? Was a literal heaven and earth in His thoughts? Remember now, what Jesus had been talking about—what He had already said in this chapter would pass away. We have been discussing the passing away of the Jewish nation, and the old religious order of things… [Read more…]
(Sometimes, after an event has concluded, a running camera can capture just that little extra. After this interview with Martyn Whittock, author of “End Times, Again?”, we caught not one, but two salient points that bear sharing and repeating. Here is the first of those points on the importance of debate over division when believers discuss biblical differences. We hope you enjoy!)
[Martyn] One of the things that I’m really concerned about is that—if it’s just liberals who diss end times beliefs—then it’s very easy for people to say, “Well, it’s not surprising you don’t believe me; you don’t believe in the Bible anyway.”
But if, in fact, people are saying, “Look, I believe in the scriptures. I believe—and you list Second Coming, virgin birth, miracles, walking on water—yeah, I’m there absolutely. And yet, I actually think the rapture is wrong, as taught.”
Then hopefully it might just prompt a few people to say, “Oh, okay. I can’t quite dismiss that as readily as I would if you just stood up and said, ‘Oh… all scripture is a human construct, therefore I don’t believe in a second coming.'”
And so, my hope is to have conversations, but I am aware that sometimes when I am talking to some of the evangelicals, you can see shutters drop down, because I realize I’ve gone off-message. I think that’s something that we do need to challenge this on- and off-message thing. I think there are certain things that become kind of like “received wisdom,” and I think some of it is very questionable, scripturally, by people that love the Bible. You know what I mean? I respect their love for the scriptures. I’m just saying, guys, you create this composite antichrist, but actually, let’s sit down with the Bible and well, there he is, there he is, there he is. There he might be, there he might be. He might be. Daniel seven. Okay. Tell me why he’s there, because you preach him as if it was all there in one go and we’ve got the same Bible and it isn’t, is he? He actually isn’t, guys. So, let’s talk a little bit about it because, if you’re wrong on this, you might be getting quite a wrong impression. If I’m wrong, well you tell me why I’m wrong.
[Matthew] Right. And use the Word to do it.
[Martyn] Yeah. Exactly. I think that a lot of people—we all do it some extent—we kind of deal with composites. We’ve all pulled it from here, there and everywhere in the Bible. We all do it to some extent, consciously and unconsciously.
We often have composite figures of all sorts of stuff. Lots of us do the same with the gospels. We kind of meld them all together, in our own heads. And that’s fine. I am not saying that’s a problem. And suddenly you sit down and say, “I wonder why John didn’t mention that at all? Oh, okay. Maybe, maybe I need to explore that. I wonder why that was such a big issue for Luke?” Doesn’t mean to say I do or don’t believe it. It’s kind of like, “That’s really interesting. I wonder why that wasn’t a big deal in John’s teaching? Why is that a big thing for Mark?” So, it’s not some kind of highfalutin liberal criticism. It’s just: let’s read Scripture as it actually is, as opposed to what we’ve made it be. I think it’s a challenge sometimes.
[Matthew] Oh, for sure. Because we don’t know what we’re reading. We take it literally or we—I don’t know of many cases where we’re allegorizing things that are to be taken literally—I guess I haven’t run into that as much as I have run into people taking literally that which was intended to be allegory.
[Martyn] Yes. I mean, Revelation is a classic on that one, isn’t it?
[Matthew] Yeah.
[Martyn] Yeah, exactly. But people jump. People are very inconsistent; they jump from one to the other. The numerology—as I mentioned in the book—is quite extraordinary. Times, and times and half a times, well that obviously is three and a half years. Okay. Or three and a half days. And if it’s days, those are days-days; 24-hour? Or are those days in which each hour—you know what I mean? It’s a year, but is that an actual year or a thousand years?
If we were consistent, it would be interesting, but we’re not. We actually leap from one to the other depending upon what makes our timetable work. I think we have to somehow say that’s really inconsistent. That’s got to be bad exegesis, surely.
[Matthew] Hey, there! I’m Matthew Schoenherr, this is Levaire, and today you’re in for a treat. Our guest is the author of “The End Times, Again? 2000 Years of the Use & Misuse of Biblical Prophecy.” Martyn Whittock is a Licensed Lay Minister in the Church of England and was a high school teacher of history and religious studies for 35 years. Martyn is a historian who has authored/co-authored fifty-four books. As a commentator and columnist, he has written for a number of news platforms and has been interviewed on radio shows exploring the intersection of faith and politics. He has been a consultant for the BBC, English Heritage and the National Trust. He has just completed ‘Apocalyptic Politics’ (releasing later this year) which examines apocalyptic beliefs driving radicalization, including in Russia. Today, he is joining us from his home near Bath, UK.
Welcome, Martyn.
[Martyn] Great to be with you.
[Matthew] Martyn, I would like to take a moment for our audience to get to know you a little bit before we jump into your book. If you could, if you would, tell us a little about your walk with the Lord. What drew you to studying eschatology (the study of last things) and how have you seen your understanding change over time?
[Martyn] Well, I was raised in an evangelical household here in the UK, with a great love of the Bible and also a very real interest in prophecy.
In the 1970s, which were my teenage years, I became deeply focused, as a lot of people did at the time, on end times thinking of the kind found in The Late Great Planet Earth which people of a certain age will be familiar with.
Then in my university studies where I was reading politics at University of Bristol, I came across 17th century groups saying similar things to what I was saying, and getting it wrong in the 17th century. And it rather opened my eyes and made me think, “Oh, we’ve been here before. What should I take from this?”
So that caused me to pause really. I kept up a continuing interest in Christian millenarianism during my teaching career. And in one part of that, I co-wrote, “Christ: The First Two Thousand Years” and another book called “When God Was King.”
In the first one I came across again 17th-century millenarians who were saying very extreme end times things in the 17th century and 16th century.
Then the latter book “When God Was King,” I was actually looking at the British Civil Wars in the 17th century, when people were trying to create a theocracy here, and were convinced that Christ was returning very, very soon. I came across the same sort of people there. And that really gave me a lot of course to think about this, to reflect upon this, to feel a little bit concerned perhaps that over this period of time, Christians had repeated themselves again and again.
I came across it in other areas too. I guess I landed a position now where all of this has caused me to advise caution with regard to end times study.
So I believe in the second coming of Christ, absolutely. But I also believe the Church has got it wrong again and again, and we have to be very cautious and very careful. That’s kind of where I’m coming from.
End Times, Again?
[Matthew] Yeah, it sounds like wisdom to me. Thank you for that. Let’s jump into “End Times, Again?” Martyn, I was delighted as I began to read your book because you seemed to be placing your finger on the pulse of a problem that I’ve been seeing in the Church for years now and that is this kind of end-times madness that overtakes us. (I would say it happens every decade, but these days it seems more frequent than that.) You say in your book that it isn’t intended to be an exposé but more of a study to understand our end-times fascination. What drove you to write “The End Times, Again?”
[Martyn] Well, partly it was that background information I referred to earlier on, that background realization that this had been done again and again and again in Church history, the Church got it wrong again and again.
As I looked that information, that evidence, I began to think, “This should give us course for concern.” But for me, the trigger event occurred in 2016. When I saw end times beliefs deployed (I strongly felt, misused,) in the UK’s referendum on membership of the European Union, the infamous Brexit, in attacks on the EU.
Then in the period of the Trump presidency, when I saw a particular approach to prophecy, and the Middle East, among many of my fellow evangelicals in the USA, influencing policy in a way that concerned me.
This was then followed by responses to the COVID-19 pandemic and climate change that also attempted to frame these approaches in end times terms, that I feel range from highly questionable to wrong, however sincerely done.
[Matthew] 2,000 years of human history is a long time. As you’ve studied that time period, have there been any constant themes you’ve seen in our end-times error? Any differences? Anything that has surprised you?
[Martyn] Well, there certainly have been constants. Basically, any catastrophic current event tends to be viewed as an end-time significance. From my studies, it would be the Magyars, and the Vikings in the 10th century, the Crusades, the Black Death, bubonic plague on this side of the Atlantic and elsewhere, the turbulent Reformation, the British Civil Wars, the Puritan settlement of America, Napoleon. We’ve seen it in the COVID 19 pandemic and the invasion of Ukraine. For example, Pat Robertson last month, bringing out, revising and redeploying predictions regarding Russia that failed in 1980s and 1990s.
Differences: Though the shift to the political right is a clear 20th and 21st century phenomenon, largely due to the way end times beliefs were approached during the Cold War I think. That’s not unique, but in the past, end times beliefs often were more socially radical.
Surprises: It’s that despite a track record over 2,000 years of mistakes, fellow believers rarely admit errors, they revise and repeat the same views, and spend such a lot of time on end time speculation, regardless of scripture warnings not to do so in for example Matthew and Acts.
[Matthew] Okay, so Martyn, what is our problem!? Why does the Church consistently get end-times speculation wrong (well, up to now anyway)? How can we avoid this seemingly endless error?
[Martyn] Why does it happen? Well, primarily I think because we ignore those scriptural warnings. We just find it too tempting to try to speculate about the day and the hour.
But also, I think there’s a tendency to quarry scripture, bolt together versus in order to construct timetables, not paying sufficient attention to their genre, their context of writing and questions of whether a literal, allegorical or pictorial message is being studied.
How might we avoid it? Just some suggestions. One is pretty obvious.
Spend more time on kingdom building and less on end time speculation.
Be more sensitive to the context and genre of scripture. Revelation is a key example of this.
Don’t assume that just because something is a big issue now it must have end time significance. The 14th century Black Death, when somewhere in the region of 30% plus of the European population died was a very big issue. People at the time thought it was the end of the world. It wasn’t.
And also, if it leads to political and social outcomes that clash with gospel principle alarm bells should be ringing. Prophetic fulfillment is no excuse for behaving in a way that clashes with New Testament teaching. Sounds obvious, but look at the history.
When Will the Rapture Happen?
[Matthew] Let’s take a moment to touch on a favorite end-times topic: the rapture. On YouTube, I’ve seen videos of people melting down over dreams telling them the rapture will be next week, next month–“soon”–what have you. These believers are so sincere! They are terrified for their unsaved loved ones. They’re exhilarated at their special download from the Lord and the nearness of His return! And, of course, those videos are now years old. You are not convinced by the doctrine of the rapture. Tell us why not. How do you believe our understanding of the rapture impacts our behavior regarding the end times?
[Martyn] Okay, the most frequent defense of the idea of the pre- or mid-tribulation rapture is claim to be in a number of key passages.
For example, 1 Thessalonians 4:17 which reads, “Then we who are alive were left will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air.” The key is the Greek harpazo, meaning to snatch or catch away. It’s this word that is now well known in its Latin form, raptus or rapture.
Then in 1 Corinthians 15:51, it states, “Listen I will tell you a mystery. We will not all die, but we will all be changed.” This belief is claimed is also revealed in a verse that reads, “The blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,” in Titus 2:13.
The rapture belief would state that it’s a hope because believers will not face the coming tribulation. Within this verse, it sometimes said that two stages are implied. Firstly, the blessed hope, the rapture, and secondly, the manifestation of the glory of Christ, the actual Second Coming.
Finally, words of Jesus in Matthew 24:39 to 41, regarding two in a field, one taken, the other left. “And two were women grinding flour, one taken and one left.”
Now there are other verses too, but these are core ones. I would argue that these do not support the rapture belief as it is now preached.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 simply assures living believers that they will be united with Christ and the Christian dead on Christ’s return. There’s nothing about it to suggest it’ll be taking place significantly before the Second Coming.
Furthermore, it seems clear that the image of meeting the Lord in the air is drawn from the custom that when a dignitary visited a city, representatives will go out to greet them and lead them back into the city. Consequently, here the Lord comes to the earth and its Christian citizens go out, which in this instance is upwards due to where the Lord is coming from, to greet Him and welcome Him. There’s no need to read this as implying being taken away while life carries on back on the earth. And certainly nothing to suggest this event significantly precedes His Second Coming.
1 Corinthians refers to the same concept those believers are alive when Christ returns, entering glory, thus experiencing death.
The two-staged interpretation of Titus is just not convincing. It imposes an artificial construct on the verse.
Perhaps most telling though is Matthew 24:39 to 41. If you read it in context, the comparison is with the judgment of Noah’s day when those who are not saved in the ark knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. The key point is that those who are taken at the coming of the Son of Man, are those swept away by the final judgment. Those who are left are those who survived the judgment like Noah and those with him. The text is very clear about that. This is the exact opposite of the rapture interpretation.
So my feeling is the overall rapture concept can be argued to be a questionable product of attempts to both timetable the end times and gain assurance that believers are exempt from the suffering preceding the return of Jesus.
But it’s now mainstream and hugely influential. And almost nobody before the mid-19th century believed in it.
The problem for me is–apart from poor use of scripture, which should worry Bible-believing Christians–is that it tends to encourage passivity. It suggests that things will get very bad but we won’t be here when it happens.
Also, it’s misleading as a clear message of scripture is that we will be here on earth until Christ’s return.
And so we should be engaging with the issues of the day, and we must recognize that what will happen to the earth will impact on us, in the here and the now.
[Matthew] So it’s safe to say, you’re not pre-trib?
[Martyn] That is safe to say that. Or mid-trib.
[Matthew] Or mid-trib or pre-wrath.
[Martyn] Indeed, there will be a great time of great upheaval, tribulation, crisis, and then Christ will return. But in that time, I believe Christians will still be present, witnessing and doing their best for Him and then He will return. That I think is a clear message of scripture.
[Matthew] Yep, and I agree. I am also on the post tribulation side of that argument, for sure.
[Martyn] Yeah, yeah. I’m a post tribulation rapture believer. I believe in the rapture but post-tribulation, at His Coming.
Who is the Antichrist?
[Matthew] Nice. Here’s another one for you: In “End Times, Again?”, you raise some key issues about the way we Christians understand this dark, foreboding figure known as “Antichrist.” What might we be missing?
[Martyn] Well, the actual term antichrist, usually uncapitalized, is found in the New Testament five times, in the letters known as 1 John and 2 John; once in plural form interestingly and four times in the singular.
The wording of these particular references is such that they’re often interpreted as marking out a certain category of person rather than, or maybe as well as, an individual.
Later belief in an individual antichrist figure also focuses on the letter known as 2 Thessalonians, and here the term antichrist is not actually used. The terms found here are “the lawless one” and “the one destined for destruction,” (2 Thessalonians 2:3) and again, “the lawless one,” (2 Thessalonians 2:8.)
The later conflation of this person with Antichrist and often with a fourth beast of Daniel 7 is understandable given that in 2 Thessalonians 2:4, he is described as “one who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship so that he takes his seat in the temple of God declaring himself to be God.”
Then the composite figure of the singular Antichrist has been, and is often also, combined by Christian writers, in the past and today, with figures found in the book of Revelation, such as one of the beasts of Revelation 13 and of course, the enigmatic mark of the beast, which represents its name is given in Revelations 13:18 as 666, 6-6-6.
And the composite nature in later Christian writings of this evil figure will be defeated by Christ is such that the ideas of Antichrist, the blasphemous beasts, the number 666 have become inextricably mixed.
However, if we’re going to be strict Bible scholars, we have to say that, in the new Testament, the actual matter is much more complex.
It’s far from clear whether these distinct figures were regarded as being aspects of one, end times enemy of Christ and His elect. And yet we talk of this composite figure now as if scripture presented that figure concisely and as one figure. It doesn’t.
[Matthew] Yeah, I’ve heard people weave it into, weave the anti-Christ imagery into things like Daniel’s 70-week prophecy and, well, how did he get in there? How did we end up with this?
[Martyn] Exactly. We end up with the quarrying of scripture in order to reinforce and create timetables which themselves are highly dubious and associations which I think are highly questionable.
[Matthew] For sure. So you don’t believe that there is one Antichrist set in the future; this anti-Christ could have been a single person in the past. Could have been, and is, you know, to some degree, we see this explained in scripture, where it is a mindset, it’s a heart position that exalts itself against God. Is that right?
[Martyn] Indeed and yet there may well be somebody who in the future represents all of this in a particularly intense way. So I believe in antichrists. And of course that is a phrase that’s used in John because I believe that this mindset, this kind of person has been present, as you say, in the past, in the present and may be in the future in a particularly intense way but simply creating a composite figure and saying there he is, as you find, for example in a number of writings, is I think a misreading of scripture.
National Israel vs Spiritual Israel
[Matthew] Well, we can’t talk about last days without getting clear on Israel. Martyn, can you talk about where Israel fits into our end-times understanding? National Israel versus spiritual Israel; where do you fall?
[Martyn] With regard to national Israel versus spiritual Israel, this is hugely controversial. My personal belief is that, what Paul calls the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, refers to believers, Jews and Gentiles who accept Jesus as the Messiah. In short, the Church.
From the late Roman empire, until fairly recently, most Christians accepted a version of this view often termed supersessionism or replacement theology. This was tragically often associated with appalling antisemitism which is not an inevitable outcome of thinking that the Church has inherited the role of Israel on the promises. But was often associated with that view and that is terrible.
However, I think that supersessionism or replacement theology misses the point that in Romans and elsewhere, it seems clear that God has not abandoned a particular and special relationship with the Jewish people.
So having said that, I think that the multiracial, multiethnic Church has inherited, by grace, the intimate relationship with God that we see in the Old Testament but that God still has a particular relationship with the Jewish people. He longs to bring them into a relationship with Jesus and they remain part of His wider plans.
I don’t believe in dispensational pre- or mid-tribulation rapture, as I’ve just said earlier. So I don’t think there’ll be a time when the Church will be taken out the equation. And while I cannot explain how it works, I think that this complex relationship of Church and Judaism will continue until Christ’s return.
That brings us to the state of Israel. I believe that the formation of Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy and a remarkable one. And that Israel plays a key role in the last days.
However, A) I don’t think that this means we can assume that 1948 started a clock running, such that we can assume the timing of the Second Coming. And I’ve seen calculations based on 1948 in a number of writings.
B) I think even if a fulfillment of prophecy, (which I think it is) this does not mean that Christians should suspend Gospel principles when relating to Israel and they should not offer unquestioning support prevalent among many Christian Zionists, because this collides with the expectations of the Gospel.
I do not think Christians should offer unquestioning support to any state or any regime. See those who really love Israel will point out when policies and actions are wrong. Remember the Old Testament prophets. Remember Jesus. Huge numbers of modern Christian Zionists seem to have forgotten this.
It sometimes feels to me that Gospel principles get put to one side when some of my fellow evangelicals reflect on Israel. Many Old Testament prophets got into deep trouble because they were critical of contemporary policies while remaining committed to Israel. I think that offers a better model for our relationship with Israel than the one that is often promoted.
[Matthew] So you don’t necessarily subscribe to supporting Israel in every move they make.
[Martyn] No, I wouldn’t support any nation or any state in every move it makes because I’m a Christian. Now that sounds provocative but I don’t mean to be provocative. The point is, the Gospel is such that there’ll be times when you say yes, yes, yes, and times you go, no, no, no, because by definition we can never offer unquestioning support to any state or any regime. The Gospel just won’t allow it.
[Matthew] Right. And I think the Old Testament, just as you pointed out, is a wonderful model for: Look, national Israel wasn’t always walking too well with the Lord, and so we can’t expect that current day national Israel is going to be any different.
[Martyn] Indeed many old Testament prophets would’ve been thrown out of conferences dedicated to support for Israel because they’d have said things that upset people because they were critical somewhere on the line they’d have said, “Thus, saith the Lord,” about some kind of behavior, and they had been booted out. That should give us cause for concern.
[Matthew] Yes. That’s a great point. In your book, you refer to the ‘weaponizing’ of end-times ideology by believers. What do you mean by that?
[Martyn] I’m really concerned about the way in which in my opinion, the end times have become weaponized and politicized in the recent past. For me, this stands out in a number of ways: In the English world, end times beliefs have been used to justify Christian nationalism, in the USA, in the UK. Now in the Orthodox Russia of Vladimir Putin.
In my opinion, we saw this in the UK over Brexit, for example. It also concerns me when people like Franklin Graham, as recently as the fall of 2021, appear to reject climate change action because the end is imminent. If it’s not imminent, then rescuing God’s creation from the effects of fallen humanity would seem an oppressing need. If the end is near, God will, I am sure, want to find us at our posts, caring for His world.
After all, and this is a major point: Just because something is a fulfillment of prophecy, does not mean we should be passive regarding it. We are still responsible for actions regarding circumstances even if they are fulfillments of prophecy.
[Matthew] Yeah, so we don’t stop doing good in the world just because we think Jesus is coming tomorrow.
[Martyn] Indeed, absolutely. And a fulfillment of prophecy may sometimes be something of which God strongly disapproves, and maybe a judgment upon the world. So us going along with it and saying, “Oh, that’s fine; it fulfills prophecy,” could be morally and spiritually deeply problematic.
More Questions About “End Times, Again?”
[Matthew] That’s a great point. If you could go back into history, who’s the one person you wish you could have interviewed for this book?
[Martyn] I would like to have interviewed Oliver Cromwell, the Puritan politician, and the 17th century Republican leader in Britain during the British civil wars. He believed in the imminent return of Jesus, but he clashed with end times literalists of his own time, particularly the Fifth Monarchist movement. I’d like to ask him what he thought and why there were such huge differences between himself and some among his fellow Puritan contemporaries.
In the present time, I would’ve liked to talk to Hal Lindsay of “Late Great Planet Earth” fame, a very influential book in the ’70s, and had a big impact on me at the time. I’ve got big disagreements with him, and as I am a Bible-believing evangelical, I’d like to discuss why our views—given the fact that we both have deep respect for scripture, believe in the Second Coming, believe in the end times—why, despite that common approach, our views on the subject are so different. I would like to share a coffee and have a chat.
[Matthew] That’d be a great conversation. Since you’ve finished the book, is there anything you would have added to it?
[Martyn] More information on the eschatological speculation during the American revolution. I mention it, but I’d like to have said more. It was happening, there were various end-times-related references being made to George III, but I’d like to have delved deeper into that and try to work out what was going on there.
I’d also like to have explored more of similar speculation that was occurring during the Napoleonic Wars. I touch upon it, but not in as much detail as I wish I had.
Also, coming up to date, I mentioned, but I’d like to have explored much further, the way that extreme end times ideology and beliefs in QAnon and similar outlooks tend to be held by this same people. Things that drove the emergence of QAnon were, I think, related to what also drove and is driving the renewed radicalization of end times beliefs. The connection is not surprising, since QAnon represents almost a humanistic millenarian realized eschatology, focused on imminent judgment day which will be followed by a reordering of US society.
In January, 2021, research by the American Enterprise Institute’s Survey Center on American Life found that, of those inclined to believe QAnon, 27% were white evangelical Christians. In short, there is, the study found, “significant overlap between Q followers and evangelicals” quote, unquote. If I were submitting the book now, I’d make much more of exploring this, and trying to work out why.
[Matthew] Okay, so maybe an updated edition coming years down the road.
[Martyn] If I have that opportunity.
[Matthew] What do you think people are going to find controversial about this book?
[Martyn] It’s challenging the belief in the dispensational pre- or mid-tribulation rapture, which is so mainstream now and the challenging of that is controversial. It’s calling for less time to be spent on end times studies and speculation, and more time on kingdom building. And probably my views on the way current end times beliefs are used to support a particular political outlook. I think those are controversial but they’re things that I sincerely feel and I’m concerned about.
[Matthew] Yeah, now, that’s fair. So what’s next for you, man? What are you working on now? And when is the next book coming out?
[Martyn] I’ve recently finished writing a book titled “Apocalyptic Politics”, which looks at the link between end times beliefs and radicalized politics across global cultures and time, not just within Christianity. And this includes in Russia, where extreme end times beliefs within Russian orthodoxy and extreme nationalism, have become entangled. In fact, I had to update that chapter following the Russian invasion of Ukraine. God willing, this book should be out in the late summer.
[Matthew] Nice. Love it. Martyn where can people buy “End Times, Again?” and how do they get on your mailing list?
[Martyn] They can get it from the publisher Wipf and Stock of Eugene, Oregon; online book sellers (for example, Amazon, but there are many others); and any local bookstore can order it. So support your local bookstore as well.
I’m on LinkedIn, and I can also be found on Twitter, where I am @MartynHistorian.
[Matthew] Nice, thank you, Martyn. It was a pleasure speaking with you today. I truly appreciate the careful way you handle our Father’s Word and I know that the Levaire viewers and readers will too. I will be adding a link to your book in this article and in the video description.
[Martyn] Many thanks, that’s very much appreciated. My hope, my sincere hope and prayer, is that the book would encourage a conversation with fellow evangelical Christians about this extremely important issue. Even when we disagree, I think it’s good to discuss why we think as we do based on our exploration of scripture.
[Matthew] All right, folks, that’s a wrap. The book is “The End Times, Again? 2000 years of the use and misuse of biblical prophecy,” the author and our guest today was Martyn Whittock. If you love the Word and you want to better understand end times prophecy you want this book.
